No answer to my question, Mr. Hinton?

Wonder if he were a Cuban citizen and vilified Castro and his form of government if he would be so successful? Or would he receive accolades for a searing docufantasy of Chavez, with his newly acquired powers to ‘make law’ and to seize all of the TV stations except one-Globalvision (maybe this is so Hugo can ‘feign’ a free media)

You think the true absence of capitalism would enhance Mr. Moore’s outlandish critiques? I am betting he would be enjoying his sustenance for the rest of his days via the generous support of the State.

I am still waiting for him to commit all of his proceeds to a favorite charity…

Even the first experiment in settling our country failed miserably in Jamestown because they tried to go it alone and embrace a ‘communistic’ system of commerce… Everyone had to ‘produce’ and ‘contribute’ all of the fruits of their labor in order to ’share’ for the greater good.

“During the first winter, half the Pilgrims – including Bradford’s own wife – died of either starvation, sickness or exposure.” (this is an excerpt from Rush Limbaugh’s the real story of Thanksgiving found here: http://bit.ly/9M478 ) and I paraphrase… but Bradford learned quickly that the form of socialism did not work… he made a bold decision and assigned one plot to each household and determined that each household would grow what they saw fit… since they owned it they worked much harder and harvested much more than their family could use… unleashing the powerful self-interest coefficient that creates surplus leading to commerce and trade… real capitalism at it’s best… So much bounty they decided to share it with their Indian friends who had helped them their first winter…

Capitalism works best when Gov’t stays out of the picture – and even Michael Moore could exercise the glory of producing for the only reason that makes sense: Self Interest

Thanks for the article – I tend to agree that Mr. Moore has a latent Libertarian streak tainted by politics and special interest. On his stated motivations, one can perceive that he is a left-leaning Enterpriser, even if only borderline – certainly not centrist. But like any power-possessing body of government (he runs a small nation for his entourage, essentially), he has still bent to special interests himself, and has lost his way.

As a result, I hope Mr. Moore’s diatribe can be “capitalized on” [ jab jab ] by those that support personal AND economic liberty, because whether our citizens know it or not, they are tired of trading one for the other every time the balance of power changes.

If you are suggesting that accountability is absent in capitalism because you aren’t sent to a labor camp for turning a profit, you are right. But, by more reasonable definitions of accountability, capitalism is at the pinnacle. Even if I hold all the gold, as you say, I still have every incentive to keep that gold and make more gold. The only way I can do so is by giving people something they want. If I don’t give the people something they want my gold will dwindle away. If I direct my gold “against everyone else” in that I harm other people or steal from them then I will certainly be punished in the court of law in a capitalistic system. It is the government-control systems that you must worry about, because the government is accountable to nobody and truly can harm and steal without recourse.

I have nothing to say about your religious gripe because religion and economic systems are (luckily) independent from each other in our nation. But, it will be a scary day in this nation when the economic systems are run by religious nuts (i.e. environmentalists).

John, you seem to believe that the government and corporations have some evil ploy to “wreak havoc and keep people in fear with debt, loss of income, government control scenarios and the like.” While I do agree to some degree of that, the far scarier reality is that people generally want these government controls, taxes and subsidies out of benevolence, not disdain. It is those that try to help others through government that end up doing the most harm. Stopping an evil set of cheats is far easier than a wide-spread group of do-gooders.

Perhaps you should re-examine your own argument briefly. You will find that you are arguing in the right direction, you just take a rogue turn. You seem to realize that government is a real problem, and that they should not have heavy controls and taxes. You seem to realize that the government should not be in bed with corporations and enact regulations and subsidies that help some while hurting more. You seem to see the value in the personal choice to perform charity work and help your fellow man, not to have government force you to do so at the point of a gun. You seem to believe that violence is bad and any government that holds the power to be indiscriminately violent towards its own people is a dangerous government. However (and it’s a big however), instead of taking the path that will lead to freedom, opulence, and happiness for all people in this nation, you go down the road that you openly condemn. Like Fascism, socialism and communism rely on a “authoritarian nationalist political ideology and a corporatist economic ideology.” Socialism cannot be implemented without the authoritarian government forcing its people to work and produce in the corporatist government owned industries. Socialism leads to the same end as fascism, economic collapse and governmental tyranny.

Ultimately, we’re after the same end: more freedom, wealth, and happiness for all people. We have just chosen different paths of achieving those goals. Yours depends on the government telling people what to do, telling them to be happy and telling them that they are wealthy. My path includes opening up all freedom to people and letting them create their own destinies unbound by any “authoritarian nationalist political ideology and a corporatist economic ideology.” Keep going on your quest to educate yourself and others about the end, perhaps you will find that the means are those that you have so strongly opposed.

Would you care to define clearly and succinctly exactly what you mean by capitalism? Because language is equivocal (especially in political science it would seem!), we may mean different things when we use this word, in which case we will spend the rest of this thread talking right past each other.

There is no accountability in capitalism perfect or imperfect. As long as power and wealth is concentrated and directed towards a few controlling interests; and in return directed against everyone else, accountability or social responsibility is negated and rendered impotent. Those with the gold rule.

The religious proponents of unfettered capitalism in the US are laughable because no major religion on the earth encourages capitalistic behavior that is Darwinian at its core – survival of the fittest. Humans have the capacity to move beyond such primitive, anachronistic, savage, and narcissistic behavior. Cooperation, compassion, brotherly and sisterly love, genuine concern for others beyond one’s profit margins are all the “better angels” of human behavior.

Corporations and governments for that matter, are little more than sepulchers of amoral (at best), generally immoral (yet shrouded in legality), deadened narcissists that are using a golem of dollars and cents to wreak havoc and keep people in fear with debt, loss of income, government control scenarios and the like. It is amazing that “We the People” are the government, that elects its representatives – illusion of representation – and we have been told to fear and loathe that to which we are inextricably connected. The ultimate self loathing scenario.

Yet we have been told through artful propaganda that corporations, capitalism and the so-called “free market” is preferable to “ The People” and their government; while the “The People” at large have no say or participatory representation within the boardrooms that rule society at large. This seems more fascist than democratic :

“Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, comprises a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology[1][2][3][4] and a corporatist economic ideology developed in Italy.[5] Fascists believe that nations and/or races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in conflict against the weak.[6 ]”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Money rules all and people are always left dead and dying in their wake.

“In a free market, businesses succeed and fail on the basis of their ideas, on their merit in creating value for society. This is determined by the free and voluntary activity of individuals who exchange with others- again, on the basis of what improves and adds value to their lives. In this model, businesses that don’t create value for others… fail.”

We are told, lies are spun to create value within the minds of those others that capitalists are creating. M ore illusion, smoke and mirrors. There is little merit in economic models that imposes its creation of value and values for society at large that by definition exclude, do harm and promote violent anti-human behavior for those that cannot comply or will not comply to its will. There is little free or voluntary individual activity expressed or encouraged in corporate economical models. Most ideas that are spawned in the capitalistic model are all contingent upon self preservation and profit with little regard for anyone or anything in its way. Look at the healthcare system where thousands of people died each day due to no healthcare. We have been told that healthcare is a privilege not a basic human right.

The idea or perfect capitalism is pretty much like going to heaven: no one knows for sure; it does not and cannot exist in this world; only benefits the believers, and sooner or later everyone that holds to this model will die believing it and will take thousands with them to the grave.